[caranx]

OK, looks like I managed to understand where my mistake was. I tied a Midknot that doesn't break, so far so good but it doesn't look so smooth as in the pictures so I need some advice. In this link there are some images that helps a bit in buidling the right knot but it is in Japanese and I don't understand a darn thing. Ham, or any of the japanese speaking guys, can you translate the main things for us so we can get into the good direction please ?

midknot

I have had so many problems lately with the knots that I'm kind of sensible with this issue, I apreciate your help

ciao

Nicola

[GFM]

caranx, en Mar 16 2004, 09:29 PM, dijo:

OK, looks like I managed to understand where my mistake was. I tied a Midknot that doesn't break, so far so good but it doesn't look so smooth as in the pictures so I need some advice. In this link there are some images that helps a bit in buidling the right knot but it is in Japanese and I don't understand a darn thing. Ham, or any of the japanese speaking guys, can you translate the main things for us so we can get into the good direction please ?

midknot

I have had so many problems lately with the knots that I'm kind of sensible with this issue, I apreciate your help

ciao

Nicola

Nicola, I'm glad you managed to do a mid knot. If your braided line isn't compacting nicely on the heavy nylon leader, I suggest you apply a little vaseline on the nylon and the braided line before starting to tie the mid knot. Also, when you are tightening up the braid, DO NOT jerk forcefully on the lines. With a little lubrication on the lines, your braided line should be able to tighten up very neatly. Also, note that too many coils of braided line on the nylon leader will hinder the knot from forming up nicely. The heavier the braid, the lesser coils you need to do on the nylon leader. I have an animated GIF file showing how to do a mid knot stashed somewhere on my office PC so I'll only be able to email it to you later tonight. Drop me an email and remind me to send the file over.

Oops... nearly forgot a very important factor about knots like FG/MID knot. Most of the leaders being used by Japanese anglers are very soft and supple. I have tried tying the FG/MID knot on hard surface leaders by BLACK MAGIC, SUFIX and IZORLINE... but found out that the braids are not able to properly "bite" onto these hard surface leaders, thus causing the braid to slip off under pressure. If you wish to do knots like FG/MID then use soft leaders like SUNLINE DAI RIKI, YGK, JINKAI or VARIVAS.

Hope this helps!

[Ham]

Ciao Nicola, It's a Korean website. My PC doesn't have Korean font, shows many ??????s except a few Roman font. I can't speak Korean anyhow. Is there any Korean angler around?
As GFM says, a little vaseline is the best solution to tie a neat midknot and some other new knots.

Ciao,
Setsuo

[Bertram]

Guys,

Just for info, SUFIX now makes a soft mono leader that we can easily buy in Europe. It's called Zippy and very soft (and a lot cheaper than Varivas) . I have used it in 200lbs and 300 lbs. The famous Elyman shop in Canaries and Spain mainland are stockists of this product. I bought some during the Barcelona boat show.

I am also experimenting with the Midknot and still not happy with the result.
Yes the braid bites into the nylon but I am not satisfied with the clinch to finish the knot. Maybe I am doing too many coils like GFM suggests.
Knots require practise to tie them quickly and eficiently. Any knot that requires more than 2 minutes is a waste of time when fishing. Have you noticed that it is always when the fishing is hot that you get a problem and need to retie a rig ? That is why I have 2 spools per reel ready with leaders tied on. So I can quickly reorganise a rod and be back fishing within seconds.

One day when I'll be a millionaire I'll have a couple of fishing assistants to retie rigs and prepare rods for me....
BTW I saw a Shimano promo video recently and their "popping star" was just like that with assitant to prepare rods, wash his hands, carry lures and bags, clean his glasses...is popper fishing THAT big in Japan, do we need to all move there and start a second life ????

Anyway thank you for the tips and tricks and let's all learn from each others.

Ciao,

Bertram

[caranx]

I assume that either vaseline or sun protection cream will do the same job, I'll try again with that and at least I'm sure is always with me in my backpack As far as the wraps, maybe it will be useful to really understand how many should we do on the way down and up and how many half hitch knot are needed to close the knot (and if is necessary to do them one way and the other). Let's say we use 65 to 80lb braid, or maybe you guys can suggest a scale starting from 20lb up. GFM I do have the animated GIF and this is the one that confused me in the beginning. I was doing the wraps down and up again with the same tag of line and from the pictures I noticed that is different, I believe this was my main problem.

Please supply as many info as you can, they'll be very much apreciated

ciao

Nicola

[JON]

Bertrand ,

Practice makes prefect , my crews are trained only to do MID KNOT and if an angler wants other knot , he can do it himself . I have used this Mid Knot since 2001 and it has not failed me yet , one trick though , it helps to burn the end cut of the mono using burning cigarette butt , just enough to prevent slippage . A Mid Knot when it's done correctly , will always break at the PE line rated strength , whatever they may be .

Using something slippery is not mandatory but a little slipping will help the two ends of the wraps to meet but too much slippage is no good , the PE line must
" bite " into the mono leader . It's best to use thick hypalon wet suit material such as those used by divers when pulling the 2 ends together , this process is crucial in getting a good " grip " into the mono leader .

As for that Shimano " popping star " , he is Fukui Kenzaburo ( Kenny ) who himself is a captain of a GT boat based in Amami Island , Southern Japan .
He is the holder of 3 IGFA records , if I am not mistaken . He tested
Shimano SW series prior to release into the market in Komodo ( #8000 ,
#10000 and #20000 ) with a few very well known GT anglers , all from Japan .

Jon

[Bertram]

Bonjour Jon,

I am 100% sure that the midknot is a good knot after watching you battling those Komodo GTs. That is why I decided to try again. I will get there, just need a few more burnt hands and cuts in my fingers from the bloody braid.

Again, any tricks in tying it would be apreciated. Otherwise send one of your crewman to show me, like the guy who was wearing a hood and hat with long sleeve shirt. Is is that cold in Komodo ?

Ciao,

Bertram

[JON]

Bertrand ,

Komodo is veeery hot especially in November / December period so the long sleeved shirt is for protection against the sun , very high UV radiation there . Likewise the hood , these guys go fishing 5 days out of a week for 2 months so need the hood .

I think it wud be better if you come to Bali , sending the crew to France wud
create problem , he may not survive the first day without rice !

Try with longer than necessary mono leader first and once you get the cross weave correct , trim the mono shorter to make it easier to do the rest of the
weaving and finally trim it so the mono will slip by the guide of the rod without
too much hindrance , remember to burn the end of the mono to avoid slippage .

Wrap your hand with thick hypalon materials from discarded diving suit , this will protect your hand from being cut by the PE line

When using #100 line , my mono may vary from #150 to #200 , smaller dia.
mono will cast further .

Jon

[dogtooth]

HI Nicola,

This is the URL for midnight knot. Found it under my Favourite folder. hehe.

http://www.ne.jp/asa...ght/midnote.htm

Are there any othe knots better than the midnight knot ? I knot midknight does not give out a big knot but how about GT knot or improve GT ?


look forward to hear from you guys.

[Ham]

Ok, I found figures and translated.


1: Hold the leader with your left hand, and the PE (braided line) with your right hand. Coil the PE on the leader 15 times tightly.



2: Close the coil a little.


3: Coil the PE end line over the previous coiled PE 5 times tightly without any gap.


4: Keep coiling over the previous coiled PE with a gap as a diameter of the PE line. Then the last 5 times with tightly again.

[Ham]

5: Hold both PE reel line and the leader, and 10 half hitches with the PE end line.


6: ...like this.


7: Hold both PE reel line and the leader and pull.


8: Hold the PE end with your mouth and keep it to the direction of the leader line. Pull each three lines and tighten up.

[Ham]

9: Cut the leader end. leave 5mm of the end.


10: Melt the end with a lighter.


11: Make 10 half hitches on the PE reel line to protect it from melted leader.


12: Finito, Fin, Finished.

Hope you can understand my translations. If not, don't ask me. I use ancient arbright knot.


Ciao,
Setsuo

[Ham]

Ciao Dogtooth, I don't know the GT knot. Do you have any URL???

Setsuo

[Bertram]

Ham/Setsuo,

Many thks for clear diagrams and explanations. Looks and sounds a lot better. When trying to make the midknot before I though somedoby had replaced my hands for chicken's with only three fingers !!!!

Ciao,

Bertram

[caranx]

My dear friend Setsuo, your help is very much apreciated by the league of donkeys knot tiers of which I'm proud to be the only representative and president (any candidate for VP ?) Now I will dedicate some 15 minutes per day trying to make this knot good, today I succeded twice and failed as much, 50% result ain't that bad for my standard. I have the feeling that the problem I had was with the first 15 coils and the overwraps, they wouldn't get close enough and it resulted in a twisted leader and a loud snap. The knot breaks at the very end, where the last half hitch is tied, probably somebody knows why it happens to beginners. I tried with suntan protection and my own saliva, if you manage to have the coils close saliva is enough but my sample has been so limited so far that I think I can't be of much help.

Again, Setsuo, next time you're in Spain or me in Japan you're invited to an unlimited amount of beers

Gracias

Nicola

[Bertram]

Nicola,

I am officially here requesting membership of the donkey knot tier's club as secretary.

I have been trying again following Setsuo diagrams and Jon' recomendations, OK it's a lot better. I can actually tie it quite quickly and it holds strong. I am just not happy with the half hitches at the end and prefer to do only five, then whip back up the tail end of the braid. It looks and finishes a lot better.

Now I need to go and cast some huge lures here at the beach and scare the s... out of people walking their dogs along. Last time I was trying a new popper here, I draw quite a crowd of joggers and old ladies who were amazed at seeing this crazy guy hurling brightly colored can sized lure out to the horizon . One dog even jumped in the sea trying to bring it back much to the despair of the old lady who nerely went in !!!
Life's bloddy dificult when you are a GT maniac in France.

Ciao,

Bertrand.

[caranx]

Bertram, en Mar 17 2004, 06:31 PM, dijo:

Now I need to go and cast some huge lures here at the beach and scare the s... out of people walking their dogs along. Last time I was trying a new popper here, I draw quite a crowd of joggers and old ladies who were amazed at seeing this crazy guy hurling brightly colored can sized lure out to the horizon . One dog even jumped in the sea trying to bring it back much to the despair of the old lady who nerely went in !!!
Life's bloddy dificult when you are a GT maniac in France.

Ciao,

Bertrand.

LMAOL And what about me that I have to do it in the swimming pool of the condo....

ciao

Nicola

[GFM]

Guys, if you are having trouble with the FG and Mid knot, why not try the simple Uni knot? Just do a double on your mainline, cut the double open, twist the two lines together and then join the twisted ends of your double to your leader using a Uni to Uni knot.

There's nothing worse than not having a sense of security about your own knots! The last thing you want to worry about when battling a big GT is whether the knots you tied are going to hold up!

The uni knot is one of the oldest, simplest and most reliable knots around. Try it sometime... you might end up loving it!

[dogtooth]

Setsuo,

The closest example I can get to a GT knot is SIG knot. Are you familiar with this knot ? If not, let me know so that I can go dig out amongst my pile of favourites saved in my PC. This is also a friction knot. GFM, would you happen to have a website for GT knot ? I learn this knot in Singapore.

With regards to the Midnight knot, do you realise the one shown on the animation is slightly different from your illustrations. The difference lies in the overhand knot on the mono after the coil-forward and coil-backwards . The animation I sent recommends tying overhand knot in a criss cross manner for some few centermetres before cutting the mono leader, whereas your illustrations only depicts ONE overhand knot before cutting the mono leader. Do you reckon that will make any difference in the knot strenth ?

Anyone who have tried both kindly contribute your 2c.

Another question, by applying vaseline, isn't it making the mono more slippery and therefore susceptible to slippage of the PE line ?

Doggie.

[Bertram]

GFM,

The thing is that knot has to go through rod rings for casting. 200 or 300 lbs mono doesn't go very well and you get cracks whent he braid catches on the rod rings.

That is why if you avoid tying a knot in the leader you don't get that clumsy knot slowing the speed of passage through the rings. I have often watched what happens, the bulky nylon knot slows down through the rings and the braid overtakes it. It create a loop which comes out from the ring and catches on the ring foot. Crack....and another popper starts a new life orbiting around the earth.

The midknot on the other hand is designed from what I am learning to bite into the nylon without having to make any knot into the mono. That is what I like in this concept.

Just a bit of practice.

Thanks for the advice anyway.

B